Tuesday, November 4, 2008

Sometimes theTruth Hurts

I read this on the NEWSER blog, Off the Grid, yesterday.

Comment by Terradea in response to Sara Palin is Your Future

Sad commentary on America. We will soon be a third-world laughing stock, not because of our phony elections and silly Republican vice presidential candidate, but because we've lost the values that once made us great. We no longer appreciate the things that make a country strong and it's society, as a whole, successful: education, ethics, experience, decorum, thrift, accountability, fairness and civil rights.

We now embrace notoriety, mediocrity, greed, power, status, extravagance, lies, slander, knee-jerk reactionaries and lack of decorum. We've become a proud, arrogant nation of red-neck hillbillies and fat middle-class losers. We like our beer and our guns and our churches, but don't preach charity to us 'cause we ain't communists. We want our leaders to be just like us: dumb, inelegant and angry. We hate the poor, the weak and the sick. We insist on babies being born but we refuse to feed them. We hate foreigners. We love to hate foreigners. And any other group that is different: gays, blacks, middle easterners, atheists, liberals, intellectuals, city dwellers ... the list is endless. We're proud of our ignorance and our hate. We are the new America. And we support Palin.

To be honest, this comment stung a bit AND I agreed with it. Truth has a funny way of being painful.

*any hateful comments about Obama will be deleted. That doesn't include thoughtful critiques.


  1. We're turning into a third world country because money has been siphoned out of the middle class and into the hands of the ultra-wealthy since Reagan, brief respite during the Clinton years. No middle class=third world country. Go Obama.

  2. A couple of weeks ago there was an article in the NYTimes saying that Palin's nomination was proof that we'd actually achieved equality, precisely because she's such a moron - We have a long history of nominating moronic men to positions of power, so the fact that we are now willing to nominate a moronic woman means that we really have come a long way baby.

  3. Quimby, this doesn't make me feel good.

    I'm telling you, Mccain is going to win this election. Too many people, like the ones described, have access to voting machines.

    It's like a damn loaded gun.

  4. Really?? And you say any hateful comments will be deleted if we say anything negative about Obama, but it is okay to call Palin a loser... oh wait, a moron. Nice...


    And what is wrong with guns.

    The sad thing is, you could change Palins name to Obama. That's how I feel about their campaign. Delete me if you want, but... I am unsure what exactly you are saying..

    Maybe I need clarification.

  5. whoa there sunshine,

    this is the problem. you got so defensive about guns.

    there's nothing wrong with guns-if you are a law abiding, educated user of them. i would defend the second amendment just like i would defend rowe. there's no reason to get upset.

    Palin isn't qualified. When the likes of Colon Powell endorse Obama citing Palin as a reason, well that should speak for itself. She's incited folks at her rallies to shout horrible things and when/if someone takes a gun to obama's head, it could be that he felt he was doing his patriotic duty--based on her statements about Palling around with...

    I've heard many many people on the right say they believe that Obama is going to take away their guns...it's just not true. It's our second ammendment right. He could no more take away our right to freedom of speech.

    but my orig agreement with that comment wasn't about Palin, ( i considered leaving it out but thought context was important) it was with the rest of it starting with, "but because we've lost the values that once made us great."

    Obama has run a clean, mostly positive campaign.

    show me otherwise and i will be corrected. (a few things here and there don't count. it's needs to be consistent)

  6. ...and sunshine, i said that comment stung at first. i don't like the idea of calling my countrymen rednecks hillbillies in a public sphere but down deep inside, i've looked at some red-neck acting dude and thought, what the hell is this country coming too? (how's that for honest?)

    I would be willing to bet that you too, in texas? have wondered about some of your neighbors um...less than desirable decorum? perhaps? just a little bit? maybe you've seen a child that is so obese from eating crap all day long tghat you thought the mother and father were neglectful?

    "we now embrace notoriety ( paris hilton types?) mediocrity (that's me) greed (oh the list is too long) power (big oil, tobacco, monsanto) status, etc.."

    yeah. let's talk about this, sunshine. i'm all ears. don't be dissapointed in me, i just called it as i saw it.

  7. Sunshine asks what is wrong with guns. I would counter with - What is wrong with compassion?

    Why is that those on the right, particularly, have such a narrow and restrictive view of morality? Why is it that they care so much about what happens in my bedroom, but not at all about what happens around my dining room table? Why is it that they care what happens in my uterus, but not at all what happens with the rest of my body?

    Christ said nothing about sex. He spoke at great length about poverty. What is the real moral issue?

  8. The definition of moron from dictionary.com: a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.

    Considering what we have learned about Sarah Palin in the past few weeks, I think it fits: She most certainly showed poor judgement as mayor of Wasilla (building a sports stadium on land the city didn't even own; allowing and by some reports encouraging the police chief to charge women for their rape kits); and she continued that poor judgement as governor of Alaska (charging the state for personal travel for her children; Troopergate; promoting friends to positions of power even when the friends had no real experience or qualifications).

    If you're going to take issue with my word choice, at least get it right. I did not say "loser." I do not use words like that because I do not buy into the "winner/loser" dichotomy unless we are discussing a specific competition. In fact I think it is precisely this idea that is so prevelant in the US - that some people are winner and some are losers - that is a big part of the problem.

    So, Sunshine, if you're going to take issue with my word choice, at least take issue with MY word choice, and not words you put into my mouth.

  9. hm... ya know, I really can't work myself up to hating McCain. I would have liked him a lot better if he had chosen liberman as a running mate.

    And even as much as I love to laugh at Palin, I don't think she's a moron. I think she is of above average intelligent. Horrible choice for VP, and I don't agree with a single thing she believes in. and her ambition is a hindrance...
    but no moron.

    and maybe I'll be sadly surprised... but I think obama's going to win.
    we'll see.

  10. ...and i don't think he will win.

    there's too many people out there that are afraid of the new guy. it's just easier to stick with the safe bet, the doughy white guy (that's a term i use for most politicians, sunshine)

  11. Okay, good points.

    1. I am a gun owner, my husband loves guns and he has taught me, and my children how to properly use them. Those are the kind of people I like. People that teach.

    2. I was joking about the guns.

    3. Is Palin my first choice? No. Is McCain my first choice, no? Is Obama my first choice no? Have we lost our moral compass? Yes. Is it one parties fault over the other? No. It is Americas fault as a whole nation. As a whole people of a once great nation.

    As for Powell endorsing Obama instead of Palin, well, that just makes me wonder what the real reason is. Because she is a woman? Because she chums around? I don't know.. that one is two deep for me. I don't have enough facts right now to tell you why.

    Honestly, I don't want either party to win. I just don't see good coming from either side, on exception of a very few.. and I do mean few, things.

    Has this country settled? Yes. Indeed it has.

    "we now embrace notoriety ( paris hilton types?) mediocrity (that's me) greed (oh the list is too long) power (big oil, tobacco, monsanto) status, etc.."

    Are you saying this is Sarah Palins fault? If you are, well, then I would disagree. I don't think it is Obama's fault either.

    Texas, no. Homegrown Utahan who spent a few years in Nevada.

    What's wrong with compassion? Not a dang thing. If only more people had compassion.

    Quimby, just because I disagree with SSM doesn't mean I have lack of compassion. In fact it is the opposite. It is a very sensitive subject because you have humans at the center. I do the best I can, as I imagine you do as well.

    "Why is it that they care what happens in my uterus, but not at all what happens with the rest of my body?"

    Because, you are talking about another soul that doesn't have a choice to be killed. Because there is enough education and tools to avoid a pregnancy, and seriously what do you expect is going to happen if you have sex? If that is what you are refering too.

    As to the rest of your body. I do care, but do you? For example, my mom is a recovering prescription drug addict. Did I care about her body? So much it hurt. Could I do anything to change what she was doing to her body. No.

  12. Quimby... I said..

    "it is okay to call Palin a loser... oh wait, a moron. Nice..."

    I did correct myself.

  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

  14. You are of the opinion that I have a disgust for Obama. I don't. I just don't think McCain or Obama are fit to be president.

    Sorry, I didn't see the link before.

  15. so, now, do you see why it's important to not let "buzz" words inform your decisions.

    if only more people would put a cap on their impetuosity and use a little more commons sense, we might not ahve the level of division we have in this country.

    that IS one of the things I like about Obama, his desire to unite us as a people and install hope in us rather than fear (dems are gonna take your guns and give your tax dollars to those lazy illegals)

  16. Absolutely. I was listening to the radio, granted it was Hannity, (don't hate me) but he had a reporter on the street asking who people were voting for? If they were going to vote, and why? In the short moment I had to listen they were only able to grab Obama supporters (so I am not harping on Obama) I am just saying it was amazing the lack of knowledge they had.

    He asked questions like "What is the one thing that Obama would do for the country that motivated you to vote for him" Nobody had a reason other than... uh... well.. uh.. because.. he is a good person.

    I think I made a mistake at the polls.

    If Obama did get President, it would be interesting to see his follow through. I still wouldn't have voted for him, but...

    Doughy white boy... haha...good chuckle.

  17. Sigh. Let's try this again:

    My point about compassion is this - Poverty is a bigger moral issue than homosexuality. At least it should be if you're a Christian. Show me one thing that Christ said about homosexuality. It's not there. You can point to the Old Testament - which was made obsolete with the coming of Christ - and you can point to Paul; but Christ Himself said nothing - NOTHING - about homosexuality. On the other hand, He spoke at great lengths about poverty and taking care of each other. So. What do you think is more important to Jesus Christ - who is sleeping with who, or who is serving who?

    But conservatives get so caught up in "hot button" issues like abortion and gay marriage, they completely overlook the real message of Jesus Christ - and in fact turn their back on it, claiming that welfare is evil, claiming that poor people are poor because they're lazy. They claim to care about "family values" but do nothing to help families in need and in fact actively work to destroy some families (by denying rights to families headed by same sex couples, by denying welfare benefits to families living in poverty, etc.)

    And the duplicity and double standard continues with abortion: If you make a mistake, you aren't the only one who has to pay for it - so does your child. The same conservatives that would force you to carry a child to term, would do absolutely nothing to help you support that child. A life is only important before it's born. Once it's born, it's every man, woman, and child for him/herself. And they claim to act in the name of Christ!

    You argue that it's a soul that doesn't have a choice; but do you really think Heavenly Father has a "one shot and that's it" policy towards mortality? If that's the case, what about the approx. 1 in 4 pregnancies that end in miscarriage? Are all those souls just damned to never have a second chance?

  18. Quimby, you and I have gone the rounds. I am sad that you think that I am such a person that doesn't care about others. Maybe that is my fault, I don't know, but all of this.. that you said... where does it come from?

    I made a comment about guns. I am for guns. I like guns. How did you get lack of compassion from that statement?

    And, really? There are no other options other than abortion? Really? I guess I don't understand what adoption means, and before you get all quimby on me, I am more referring to the third "mistake" as opposed to the first.

    And how in the world did you get:

    "You argue that it's a soul that doesn't have a choice; but do you really think Heavenly Father has a "one shot and that's it" policy towards mortality? If that's the case, what about the approx. 1 in 4 pregnancies that end in miscarriage? Are all those souls just damned to never have a second chance?"

    In abortion the soul doesn't have a choice to be aborted. It doesn't! Show me where in the bible it says that. And secondly, of course that baby will have a chance to come to this earth, but how has it been emotionally traumatized? Do you really understand that? If only....

    Our spirits are forever beings what happened in the premortal life, in this life, and the next will be forever imprinted on our souls. If only more people understood that they would value life. They would have compassion on the soul they are torturing, but I guess that part of compassion you aren't worried about.

  19. My statements referred to "conservatives." If you choose to put yourself in that group . . . I have seen nothing in conservative behavior or attitudes to dissuade me from this notion that conservatives really don't give a flying leap about alleviating poverty.

    Statistic after statistic show that abortion rates remain fairly steady whether or not abortion is legal - and that adoption rates don't increase because abortion is illegal. Adoption is largely a straw man argument: Fewer abortions do not mean more adoptions.

    You really have no proof that souls are "tortured" by abortion. (Where in the Bible does it say that?)

    The wider quote was about morality. It mentioned guns once; you jumped on that. I countered with compassion because, again, the larger argument was about morality - and what is more moral than compassion?

    Again you have failed to address my central argument - that Christ cares more about poverty than He does about the "hot-button" issues of the right-wing.

  20. sunshine, according to my memory, even the church hasn't determined whent he soul enters the body.

    how about we all agree (or mostly) that the church's stance on abortion is a sound one and that's should be our guide.

    let's not debate all of the other stuff, lets just stick with the church teaches and go forward.

    abortion is an ugly thing. for some, without a religion such as our to guide their decisions, it's less complicated.

  21. sunshine, according to my memory, even the church hasn't determined whent he soul enters the body.

    how about we all agree (or mostly) that the church's stance on abortion is a sound one and that's should be our guide.

    let's not debate all of the other stuff, lets just stick with the church teaches and go forward.

    abortion is an ugly thing. for some, without a religion such as our to guide their decisions, it's less complicated.

  22. really... snarfblat...

    I get to dang emotional and then I am told not to.


    Sorry mfranti. It just seems that the only opinions that matter are the ones that agree with quimby and that irritates the hell out of me. Nothing she has said to me has had compassion in it, or has led me to believe she is a compassionate person. THat bugs me because she is claiming we should all be more compassionate. What is it that Jesus says... ah yes, lead by example... where is the example?

    ugg... emotional again...

    Shes not right... all of the time, (but don't tell her that.. :)

  23. "tortured" that's not what I said... unless you can't read, I said traumatized, and really your soul...ah even if I had the proof, (which I have) staring you in the face you wouldn't believe it... so it's not worth it. I would recommend you read the scriptures again.

    Dangit!! I need to stop!!

    Sorry mfranti I m whoring your website...


  24. sunshine, take a deep breath.

    i'm not taking sides. if anything, i taking the church's stance on abortion. i'm not ganging up on you and i'm not defending quibmy.

    i agree with you guns should be your right, choice in abortion should be your right and i will defend both of those.

    as for compassion on quimby's part, well...i'll let you two work it out.

    again, i aint taking sides-i just happen to remember something about there not being a specific time the soul enters the body and that the church is pro-choice in certain circumstances.

    AND...i'm listening to you. ;)

  25. Sunshine, there's really no need to make it so personal. I haven't attacked you; I've said things about conservatives but not about you, in particular. You don't need to attack me. Nor do you need to call into question my personal worthiness. It's not necessary, it's over the top, and it does nothing to back up your position.

  26. sunshine, don't go away. i never suggested you should go away.

  27. and another thing,

    sunshine, you have a tremendous amount of compassion. i know, i've read your words. there's a lot of beauty within

    but as with many on both sides, once certain buzz words are said, all rationality and common sense goes out the window and people start arguring based on emotions.

    let take a common sense approach to abortion.
    [in a minute-obama just unofficially won the election]

  28. I know quimby, that is why I can't have a conversation with you. I take it personal. Call it one of my better faults.

    I get emotional. I get emotional when it sounds like you are telling me, because I am a conservative, that I have no compassion and that conservatives don't have compassion. It bugs me. I get emotional. I am trying really hard not to because I agree it doesn't do anything for my point. I just don't agree with you. Maybe the difference is you're looking at statistics where it is the conservative leaders that have no compassion as opposed to the conservative people.

    Maybe I should ask you for statistics that show that the conservatives (the people not the leaders) are actually the way you describe.. in fact I ask you to show me statistics that show, that actually show me that conservatives lack compassion.

  29. told you he would win...

    thanks mfranti

    and your absolutely right... don't you just love the freaking 'buzz' words.


  30. Sunshine, any answer I give you will only upset you more. But briefly: The US is the most conservative country in the OECD. It's also - by any measurement - the least compassionate. Although it is the wealthiest country in the world, it has a staggeringly high rate of poverty, and has done shockingly little to alleviate that poverty. Left and centre-left countries measure up much better on any scale of equality and social welfare.

  31. Here's a scientific study showing that Conservatives, when presented with information that contradicts their predefined beliefs, react by beliving more strongly. Liberals, the opposite.


  32. I still don't see how that proves that conservatives aren't compassionate.

    Plus, this nation isn't just built on conservatives we have democrats that live here too, so what are the stats on them being compassionate. Just because someone 'says' lets help the poor, doesn't mean they are going to.

    Plus, the law of consecration (giving what you have to the building of the kingdom, or in other words give to the poor) is different than socialism (you give everything you have so someone doesn't have to work and benefits from your labors. They are much different.

    And djjn BS I don't see Quimby backing down anytime soon.

  33. djjn, unless of course you are talking about their natural tendency to flip flop, then I guess I would agree with you....

  34. Sunshine, if that is your definition of socialism, then I suggest you check a dictionary.

    And again, thanks for the personal attack. Very helpful. Very much appreciated.

  35. You know, for the sake of your blood pressure, I think I'll stop this "discussion." I still don't get the vitriol, anger, and personal attacks; but then with your obvious misunderstanding of the issues at play it makes sense you'd go on pure emotion. And you know, it's just not worth it for me to discuss anything with you when you can't even get basic definitions correct, and when your first reaction, upon feeling threatened, is to attack.

    Maybe when you learn to play nice . . .

  36. Sunshine, I also suggest you read up on the law of consecration. Very interesting. I have read diary entries from people living the law of consecration; I don't the phrase means what you think it means.

  37. In half of all conceptions involving abortions, the couple were using contraceptives. Just throwing that out there.

  38. It seems as though you are belittling me quimby, which is frustrating because I just want to know more about where you stand. But because I get 'emotional' I am not fit to have a conversation with you? I admit it. I try not, but it is who I am.

    You have a different view than me. I want to know why. I want to be challenged so that if there is an error in my ways I can correct it.

    Emotions are my strength (and my weakness) I know emotions. I don't know what you have, the ability to retain facts, to be a political as you are. I hear facts, I read things, I am educated, I just don't retain them like you do.

    I don't think it is right that you lay the blame of lack of compassion solely on conservatives, although, I would agree that they could use some work too, if not mighty work, but its not all conservatives fault.

    I am going to have to ponder more about why Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality, and the fact that he did talk about compassion.

    I don't agree with socialism. Do I think something needs to be done about the insurance problem? Yes. I can't afford insurance right now. I don't have it. Its a tight spot, but I don't think that the government should be involved. I don't have a solution yet.

    I do what I can with what I have. I apologize about the personal attacks, and the last one was meant more as a compliment than an attack.

  39. happily, as we now know, the commentary is a hopeful one, because the U.S. did not embrace that which Palin, or even McCain embodied! Sarah Palin is not our future for now. Our future is a more moderate path.

    Interesting altercation which has erupted here. I'm curious to what Sunshine attributes the facts that the U.S. has among the highest rates of poverty, the highest incarceration rates, and the highest murder rates in the developed world if that does not reflect a lack of compassion. Given that the U.S. is also about the most conservative nation, and that conservatism is an ideology which so highly values a very restrictive set of social norms, individualism and self-interest--crucial elements of egoism, can Sunshine see see no reason for such a conclusion?

    Sunshine, you noted that "this nation isn't just built on conservatives we have democrats that live here too,"

    Yes, and as conservatives never seem to understand, Democrat does not mean liberal. There are very few true liberals in the Democratic party. In the U.S, we have a conservative party (mostly neocon, but still con) and a less conservative party. The fact that Democrats are frequently part of the problem says nothing about liberalism.

  40. Highest incarceration rates? It's crazzeee. 3% of the population and 25% of the prisoners. Huh?

    Plus, don't forget that we spend twice as much AS THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED on our Armed Forces.

    But yet, no money for universal health insurance.

  41. Late to the party, but I'd like to comment on the original post. I find the excerpt to be right on, and here's why. We have become a country that scowls at the word "academic." Sarah Palin's bragging about being Joe Six Pack and constantly belittling President-elect Obama's community organizing was sad and the first of many reasons why I disliked her as a candidate.

    When did we decide we wanted our leaders to be just regular folk and not the best we could find? When did drive to learn and succeed become bad words?

    And I love the fact that Obama's community organizing background just kicked their trash all over the electoral map. Grass roots, baby.

  42. Whoa, M! 45 comments? Who is the rock star now!! :)

  43. Let's make that 46...

    On facebook, I wrote "LJK, too, is a feminist, "whatever that means."'

    And nobody got it.

    I had to clarify that it was Sarah's latest quotable. She might as well have said, "I, too, would still like to try my hand at national politics, whatever that means."

    It's appalling (A-palin, hehe) how localized her knowledge of the world is. Take for example her inability to come up with just one more Supreme Court ruling other than Roe v. Wade. Her next stint should really be host for local Alaskan morning show.


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