Monday, February 8, 2010


Welcome fMh'ers!

Since Lisa's place is under contruction, I thought I'd open my place up for the party.

I know! It's not pink. But it is cozy and all are welcome here. So put your feet up and let me grab you a cup of Chamomile tea and let's what we do best--talk.

This is an open thread unless you'd like to talk about this poll I found during my internet travels.

p.s. If you comment under "anonymous" because you don't have a blogger account, be sure to leave your regular handle so we know who we're talking to.


  1. Wow, that poll just scared the living daylights out of me. It shouldn't because I live smack in the middle of some who think like that. In fact, a few of the worst came from the same gene pool that I did.

  2. That was an interesting poll. I consider myself conservative. But I should rephrase that to be that I am (struggling for the right word) legislatively conservative. Meaning that I don't like lots of laws etc (almost libertarian). But I am clearly not religiously conservative. I am a strong proponent of birth control (condoms, pill etc). My favorite organized religion is Judaism and I don't think they are going to hell.

    I guess that my point is that it is really hard for us to try to fit in one box. We are all individuals with varying ideas.

  3. welcome numi and still confused.

    yeah, i posted a link to that post because i thought it might generate some good fmh like discussion.

    i too, think it's scary.

  4. How many people do y'all think really agree with the likes of Palin? I mean, she just seems so obviously absurd to me. I feel like I should be able to just laugh away any potential threat she could pose to our country, because SURELY very few intelligent people give her the time of day....... But I have this terrible fear that I might be wrong. My own sister attends teabagging (heheheh) protests....... How widespread is it?

  5. enough to be loud and heard.

    i hope she makes a third party run. bring it on!

  6. Lupita here who deserves to be anonymous since she can't figure out the posting. Which makes me sound like I'm 87. I'm not.
    This poll is disturbing on so many levels.
    I want to give Republicans the benefit of the doubt. I do.
    But, as Natalie said, Palin? Give me a break.
    The worst part is realizing that navigating this on Sunday is becoming more difficult. Biting my tongue or trying to just be polite when people spout off because they think they're among like-minded friends. I mean, I'm trying to love these people, right? And they want Palin? :)

  7. Pretty widespread among the conventional Mormon crowd here in Utah and the rest of the BofM Belt, Natalie.

  8. But..... do they listen to her TALK?

  9. TAG here - well, I find Palin frightening, it's true, but there is a farmer neighbor of ours who adores her. The weird thing is that he is not your conventional cornandsoybeans farmer, but is into growing organic tomatoes for the farmer's market and moved into doing compost production as his main occupation. Pretty progressive farmer, pretty smart guy, but he just loves her. I don't get it.

    I get most of my news from the Washington Post and the Huffington Post - especially the later gives me a skewed view of how the world sees her. I love today's headline about her double standard with Rush Limbaugh saying the same thing that Rahm Emmanuel said. I just don't know that the non-HP reading world knows it.

  10. Hi, and thanks M. Also, Thanks to Lisa for linking up FMH Facebookers so we knew what was going on.

    Love ya,

  11. Ok soooooo Ya. Being a moderate that was previously republican (gasp) Just the name "The Daily Kos" makes me almost auto discard. Now, mind you, I did read it and tried to be open lol. Old habits die hard.

    Anyhow, I think I would like to know how many of the people polled were not just registered Republicans but actively voting. I have to think that a lot of the "not sure" answers weren't necessarily saying it was open to debate, but that they weren't knowledgeable about the support for either answer. Also I would like to know how many are in states that require you to vote party lines for primaries. You know, when "independent" isn't allowed to vote on who gets to run under either parties ticket.

    I dunno. Sarah Palin, while well intentioned (I believe) is NOT presidential material. Hate to say it to any Republicans out there... she won't cut it. And this from someone who voted McCain (I know, I know... repent repent...).

    BTW this is April.

  12. I'm needing an FMH fix, thanks for this Mel. The poll is way too scary, but confirms EVERYTHING I've suspected about the wingnuts I live amongst. Good freaking grief!

  13. Thanks M. for opening up your blog to us.

    I wish I could say the poll scares me but, I was scared long before I read it. I am SO tired of trying to defend my political views when I have to go up against arguments like these (my favorite is Obama has hired someone to put poison in our water so we will become sterile). I spent an entire day on the side of the lake with a bunch of friends who all believe this crap. I wouldn't back down, and neither would they. It is hard to argue against conspiracy theory. I can't believe they still invite me.

  14. I can't believe people honestly believe that birth control is abortion and should be outlawed. That's downright terrifying. I really, really would like to know the though process or information that led them to that conclusion. Do these people even try to have views based on reality, or do they just believe what they think would be convenient to believe whether there's any truth in it or not? I'm thinking it must be the latter. But why would anyone choose to live that way? Our prophets and apostles are constantly encouraging people to pray and find out what's true for themselves -- there's nothing in the base facts of our religion that I can find to support this kind of thinking and behavior. So why is it so prevalent?

    Sorry if this is hard to follow -- I've got screaming kids around me and a baby on one arm. But even with all that clouding my thinking I'm not as off the mark as some of those in that poll. And you don't know me -- I'm generally a lurker. You know, because of the screaming kids making it hard for me to think.

    And I'm tired of hearing people spout off at church, too. I don't even discuss things there anymore. I used to be able to in my BYU married ward (there's hope in us young people, don't worry!), but since we moved and are in a "real" ward I've run across some really crazy people. I avoid the conversation now, I'm sad to say. I don't like discussing things with people who won't even respect your opinion enough to discuss calmly.

  15. I'm from SE Idaho. The red scare never ceased scaring people. As a kid I listened wide-eyed to the many commie conspiracies, but they kind of bounce off of me anymore. I realize that all it takes for evil to prosper is apathy, but honestly, how can anyone have the stamina to be horrified by every unsubstantiated conspiracy flung into the void (just in case, against all odds, one is true)? I can see how fear--->hate has poisoned a lot of people around me, and I prefer to err on the side of love. Although the fascists will have to pry the contraceptives from my cold, dead, hands. After they shoot me with whichever gun of the collection is amenable to Christian jihad kilings at say 4:00pm on a Tuesday.

  16. Okay, the one that pissed me off the most was the "should openly gay men and women be allowed to teach in the public school?" And 68% said no. Okay, that's just blatant bigotry to me. My friend (who's blog is linked to the old fMh) is an open lesbian and a temple recommend holding member of the church. She has chosen celibacy so that she can remain a member in good standing. How many of us would be able to choose our religion over having a spouse and a love relationship the rest of our lives? So I hate the blatant homophobia inside and outside of the church, but especially inside. I feel that members should learn the difference between the person and the sin. Instead I had to suffer through several weeks of a Gospel Doctrine Teacher in my new ward continuously spout off about Prop 8 and how in the last days evil will be called good nonsense (he said this in relation to being tolerant and accepting). He really hated having me in his classes. Especially when I would sit there and roll my eyes at him and when my husband sat on pins and needles just waiting for me to raise my hand. Thank goodness they called me to Primary where I can indoctrinate the children into my feminist liberal ways (insert evil laughter here). Anyway, to get back to the original point of my comment...restricting openly gay teachers from PUBLIC school is just totally discriminatory. If they had inserted "black" instead of "gay" I wonder what the response would have been. Hate is hate no matter what cloak you throw over it.

  17. I used to get really frustrated with all the mom's in my old ward who just sat around and didn't care enough to make themselves knowledgeable about what was going on in the world. I got frustrated going to "playgroups" after going to vote and finding that none of the other mom's had voted nor intended to. But they all had warped ideas as to what was wrong with the world, so maybe it was best that they didn't vote. I just don't understand how people can sit around and refuse to recognize that those who lead in out government DO effect our day to day live in one way or another.

    Just for the record, in SE I know of NO ONE (loads of Republicans around btw) who thinks birth control is abortion. I have no idea how they got that many who answered that way.... maybe the Hillbillies??

  18. I did a big research project for my "Populations at Risk" class about doctors who refuse the morning after pill to rape patients because of their religion. Let me assure you, there are many, many people out there who believe that any birth control is abortion. I found some wingnut in the Bible Belt in Texas with his own radio station who likened any woman who used birth control to a nazi. Yep, I was pretty out-raged. So was most of my class when I did a 2 hour long presentation on it.

  19. The morning after pill is controversial. Where prevention of pregnancy altogether is not so much. I personally don't classify the morning after pill as birth control because it is used after the fact. But I think it's abhorrent that it would be denied to rape victims.

    Every wing has it's nuts :)

  20. The morning after pill does exactly the same thing as regular birth control. It prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterine lining or it blocks ovulation from occurring. The only difference is it's taken afterwards, like if a condom breaks. I don't see anything controversial about it since it's the exact same thing. And if you're already pregnant, it does bupkiss. But yeah, denying it to rape victims because your religion says all birth control is bad is just wrong, wrong, wrong! And that's why they were my population at risk.

    I like to say every screw has it's nut, but wings work good too :-)

  21. April,

    I know that the Kos isn't the best source for non biased material but he did say that he hired a non partisan pollster to poll (was it a couple thousand) self declared Republicans. Voting or not, they identify a such.

    it's scary.

  22. Wha? Sarah Palin better than Obama? Sarah Palin.. oh..she's an idiot! I even thought that when she was picked to be VP and I'm a republican.

    There's a couple of things I have issues with on the poll. The 'Not sure' box could actually be, I have no idea what you are talking about so I'll respond that way, answer.

    Interesting poll though...

  23. sunshine, as a republican, for any of those questiosn, would you ever have a "I have no idea what you're talking about" moment?

  24. Most of the questions seem pretty straight forward to me but hey, I'm not a skittish reactionary.

  25. Okay... so, ya, only one 'i have no idea' that was the ACORN thing.

    Maybe rather than I have no idea it should be I have no information to lead me to believe I have anything to say other than I don't know, and what for... how's that? Especially the question, should Obama be impeached, well, what for? and why are you asking me this?

    Why are you asking me if Obama thinks the terrorists should win, has he done something I don't know about..? And pertaining to the racist question, well, I don't think so, but I don't know him personally so he could be, but I don't know it.

    Okay, so maybe that's all but seriously, mel, there are some stupid people out there that don't really know and aren't educated and would probably ask, 'who's Sarah Pallin?"

  26. Sunshine,

    They are being asked those questions because a segment of the republican/conservative party believes such things. You may say that's a stereotype and well, it is and that's teh point of the poll.

    he (Kos) wanted to see if his ideas of what "they" think was real.

    it turns out, he was right. If you can't answer, yes to obama being a US citizen, you've got big issues.

    and so do we (the american people).

  27. ps...

    i'm not saying that the republican commenters of fmh are skittish reactionaries. just some of the folks in that poll.

  28. I'm curious, is polling for paranoia pretty constant? Is there data over time? I guess I'm wondering if it's just the same people being consistently twitchy over time (my family and in-laws), or if more people look for conspiracies when times are challenging.

  29. Hey, you've been nominated for a Brodie over at Main Street Plaza in the "most tireless community builder" category, congrats!

  30. I think people look more for conspiracies when things are changing, especially when they feel that the news media is always slanted one way or the other.

  31. Just have to say that I love you all. These comments make me feel warm and fuzzy all over. :)

    I am not a member of The Church, however I have been through missionary lessons three times. Yes, three. separate. times. Wish I had known fMh existed back then, might have been able to get passed the conservative patriarchal aspects.

    But I digress...

    Also, I somehow feel partially responsible for the server being down... I know it's dumb an unrelated but it happened right after I gave you guys a blog award. Gorsh! I will know better next time! ;)

  32. Risa, There is no excuse then if the doctors aren't giving it out when needed. Give me a freakin break. I doctor should know how it works. I understand if the general public doesn't, because HEY that thar system is complicated! But a doctors she have a clue. There is no excuse for that.

  33. The student in me wonders the demographics of this poll. I wonder if this is a poll by mostly older Republicans. I look at the college students around me and I don't see these really conservative views anymore. Although I really don't discuss politics a lot. I would imagine most of the Republican student population does not view BC as abortion. Just a thought..

  34. I would also imagine that most would not have an issue with Gays teaching children (as long as they weren't educating about the specific sexuality of what all that entails). I think that's kinda nuts.

    Then again, I wonder why people don't think more like me ;)

  35. Do you know what I want to know about this poll? What time of day was it taken?

    I mean, if you are generally polling people during work hours you are probably going to get a lot of unemployed people that are pissed at whatever party is in power ATM. Since a lot of the starting questions are on Obama (a decidedly Democrat President in the majority democrat government ATM) do you think a lot of the pollees just got pissy and decided to answer with anger rather than rational thought?

    I think this poll could just as easily be to gage how mad and irrational people get when they are hurting (ie the economy) and blame the controlling party therefore disagreeing with anything and EVERYTHING that party stands for.

    Anyone who is mad at government is going to say the used car salesman down the road would make a better president than the current one.

  36. Just a thought on this one... "Should openly gay men and women be allowed to teach in public schools?"

    I wonder how much the answers would have changed if they had taken the word "openly" out of it. I think that many Republicans may view this as possibly having the person addressing the "right/wrongness" of being Gay. I could see many Republicans (and, for that matter, religious people of many creeds) saying that they wouldn't approve.

    I wish I knew what the term "openly" meant to the pollees. There are a lot of odd views out there.

  37. I'm openly heterosexual and I don't go around teaching children the ins and outs of heterosexual sex. Did I just say ins and outs??? Freudian slip. Ya know what I mean? Since when does a person's sexuality have any bearing on the type of teacher they're going to be? I knew a few of my teachers in high school were gay, not because they were open about it, but because I have good "gaydar." I also had an openly gay professor in college (he's my FB friend) who never disputed the fact that he was gay, but he also wasn't running around in a pink tutu talking about his boyfriend all the time. There's a stereotype for you. Teachers jobs are actually to educate our children and they pretty much have to stay on the curriculum. Although this didn't protect me from having to hear some of my teachers spout off on their conservative beliefs while I just rolled my eyes. Uh, Mr. Jenson, what does Clinton's failed health care plan have to do with dissecting a frog?

    When I think that 67% of the respondents say no, I think it's all based on irrational fear. Watch out or the gay teachers will make our kids gay! Watch out or the gay teachers will tell our kids that being gay is biologically based! Watch out or the gay teachers will be having our sons dressing up Barbies at playtime and forcing the girls to play football! The horror! The horror! I was a senior in high school when East High in SLC tried to implement a Gay/Straight Alliance Club and the school administrators would have rather shut down ALL clubs at the school rather than allow this one. This was an oft-debated topic my senior year and I heard all these arguments. My favorite being they'll turn the other kids gay, because it's so easy to change someone's sexuality.

    And yes, I hear these kinds of fear-based reasons TODAY (haven't changed much in 14 years) from the people around me living in the heart of Teabagging country. And yes, I said teabagging because I think all the Tea party members (especially Sarah P.) are teabaggers. Look it up!

    Perhaps I'm feeling too silly tonight and should go to bed.

  38. LOL I think most "teabaggers" are just pissed at both parties dishonesty honestly. I can see their point in not wanting more power given to corrupted individuals (be they corrupted by being in the pockets of the corporations or by the need for more power) But I think Palin is a BAD BAD BAD champion for their cause. When she says that the Democrats need to listen up she needs to be pointing at her own party too.

    Honestly if there was a viable third party, I would consider voting for it. I'm tired of the lies and deceit in our government, the lack of follow through on just about everything when it comes to politicians (campaign promises anyone?), and the making for more and more laws when they seem unable to enforce the ones they already have in place.

    Wish things would go back to the "spirit" or the law, rather than the "letter".

    As for Gays, I agree, a lot of it is fear. And a lot of fear is due to lack of knowledge. I think a lot of the hate mongering comes from BOTH sides of the isle. The Republicans with "polygamy is next" and the Democrats with the "your all heartless bast*rds". And honestly if a poll asked me if I would support openly heterosexual teachers I would probably say no depending on the age of my kid. I would assume that because the word "openly" was used it would be in the context of biology etc... I don't want my kindergartner knowing the "ins and outs" of anything sexual outside of "if someone tries to touch your private areas tell them not to then if they still try scream, yell, and fight and tell an adult!!!!".

    That being the case I also don't want teachers (no matter the orientation) telling my kids that things that are controversial are right or wrong, I want the teachers to leave that mine field for me and my kid to talk over and decide for ourselves.

  39. Aprillium
    I am bemused by your prurient definition of openly.
    To not allow openly heterosexual teachers would mean no one could be a Mrs and all those straight folks would have to take off their wedding rings. No mentions of spouses or dates, even in the teachers lounge.Don't get innocently caught out in public with your spouse(if you do, do your darnest to pass them off as just a friend.) On all the official forms, remember you're single. And don't mention if you have children, don't want any one to get to get the wrong idea of where they came from.
    Being openly heterosexual does not mean demonstrating sexual positions to students. It's how straight people live their lives--openly.

  40. I'm amused and relieved at the Republicans suggesting that the Daily Kos poll is somehow twisted to make Republicans look bad. I read the protocol (I've worked as a statistician, if anyone cares) and the poll results look quite straightforward, with little room for methadological dismissing.

    Some large percent of self-identified Republicans are complete and scary loonies. Fact, shown by poll.

    What follows is my personal opinion; Pretty much every owner of major tv stations has politics that are out-and-out hard hard hard right. Really, the only person in a newsroom whose opinion matters is the one with the power of the checkbook.

    The world is very very complex. People with limited time have no reason not to believe what's on tv, especially when it's reinforced by their community.


    2nd takeaway lesson: please clearly identify yourself as a Republican so I can run away, fast.

  41. Sneilson, I was just trying to make a point. And yes, I think that anyones sexual preferance is really not any of my business. I don't really want to have to hear about anyones sexual escapades be they Hetero or Gay. That is the point I'm making. Why include "Openly" in the question, it just leads to assumptions about what that word implies. Oh, and mentioning children doesn't imply any sexual orientation. Single people can adopt, gay people can adopt, many hetero couples adopt for various reasons.

    I happy to agree that everything is slanted. Though I don't agree that all are slanted to the right. Foxnews is admittedly, Talkradio definately is, The Wall Street Journal is, but the rest are debatable and some to more extreme than others. Many people with the "checkbook" so to say are Democrates or benefit most from the Democratic parties stances.

    Oh, and I love the blanket statement about all Republicans. Loverly. I hate blanket statements. While Sterotypes often have some truth to them, they are a gross simplification of the way things are.

    FYI I am NOT Republican. I do however like to play devils advocate and think a middle of the road approach is best for just about everything.

  42. Risa, what up with dissin' men running around in pink tutus?!

    I'm really tired of people talking about homosexuals being "openly homosexual." It's as if conservatives worry that if homosexuals are accepted as humans, they are going to start having sex in public. I doubt there are any more exhibitionist homosexuals than exhibitionist heteros, and I don't think public heterosexual sex is any more acceptable than homosexual. So instead of the bigoted statements about "openly homosexual," why not just say flatly that openly sexual acts (implying either or any variety) are inappropriate in public. On the other hand, homosexuals should have just as much right and ability to show affection in public as heteros. If conservatives want to ban such "openly homosexual" acts as holding hands, hugging, or the sort of public kissing they find acceptable among heteros, then they are hypocrites.

  43. Aliberalmormon,
    Now I'm bigoted, thanks. I was trying to take an extreme stance to make a point. Sheesh. In fact, it was the same point you just made! "sexual acts (implying either or any variety) are inappropriate in public"

    However, many of the average people in this country read into meanings of words. THAT was my point. I have to state that I think if the question had been "Do you think Gay people should be banned from teaching in public schools? Yes or no." that the outcome would have been starkly different. For anyone that knows polls at all, you know that wording DOES, in fact, make a difference as to the answer that is received.

    Can we please get past the "I'm open-minded, but if you don't agree with me you must be stupid (and or bigoted)" crap?

  44. Aprillium, I was just teasing Risa in my typical curmudgeonly way, pretending to take offense since I'm renowned on FMH for my ballerina costume. I agreed entirely with her (your? are you posting under both Risa and Aprillium?) point, just being playful.

  45. ROFLMAO.... no I'm not Risa :) We have tifts sometimes :) and YAY FMH is back!!!! Time to go post my keyboard vomit over there :)

  46. @aliberalmormon:

    Aprilium and I are way different peeps. In fact I was just thinking how cool the green or blue streak is in her hair. I want a purple one in my hair. Alas, if I can't even skip pantyhose at work, I wonder how far the universe would implode if I showed up with a purple streak. The old men in suits might have actual heart attacks. We're talking people's lives here!

    And I have nothing against men running around in pink tutus. Actually I prefer it. I'm thinking of getting DH one for Valentine's Day, but he might be a hard fit at 6'3" and 220 lbs. And I'm about as anti-homophobic as you can get. Even though I look as Molly as a church mouse (I can't help it, it's the Scandinavian genes), the gays actually flock to me because they know I'm completely accepting.

  47. Thanks for letting us high jack your blog Mel so our withdrawals weren't as painful!

  48. Risa! You should SO do purple! :) Most people don't know that the "extreme" colors are never permanant dye (according to my stylist) I actually need to be my blue (it actually came out more Teal, which is fine by me) revamped this next week... it's fading out... makes me sad. But it wasn't expensive so it's all good :) I actually haven't received any nasty looks at church etc like I fully expected to, then again I've only had it for about a month... it was a nice surprise!

  49. yes, thanks mfranti!

    I apologize for how ragged that last post was. Wow... need to reread before posting!

  50. I second the thanks for opening up your blog. Although I'm not sure I want to think of you as Melanie the Methadone Gal thanks to Fastball lyrics (ie Charlie the Methodone man, sporting his leopard skin thong)

  51. I do not get the Sarah Palin appeal.


  52. Hey- I love this blog, and I can't wait to also follow FMH's when it's back up and running. I've been recommended and it sounds great! I'm now following.

  53. volcano,

    what name do you comment under at fmh?

  54. I think what scared me the most was that 73% of people polled actually believe that openly gay and lesbian people should not be allowed to teach in public schools.

  55. What about the ACORN basher who got caught trying to wiretap? Some wackos act like he's a hero. I think it's criminal.

  56. I for one do not want an openly gay man or woman teaching school. Nor do I want Palin to do anything other than write fairy tales.

    I used to be associated with the GAY party on the west ocast and there is not anything they will not do. Again I am generalizing but I knew the people in charge of protests for the gay party. They would also hire themselves out to show other non-gay groups how to demonstrate. Laying in the road, blocking traffic, screaming obscenities in your face if you do not agree with their side of the story.

    They know they are a minority but will go to any lengths to be noticed. What they do in their bedroom is often beyond description but when you are in the party the descriptions never end.

    The party would often blackmail its own members who had not come out of the closet into financing whatever the party thought was a good cause.

    Some of the members were into single partner relationships while the majority are not. One of the favorite sayings at the program was "if sex were calories I would weigh 1000 lbs"

    The men or women were not in any way normal. During daytime hours they would appear as such but during their offtime they would engage in such carnality it would be wrong for them to be in a trusted position in a school. Also ask yourself what position you would want them in.

    I have a very good gay friend now who does not act on his lifestyle and i know there are others but they are in the minority. It make me smile when I hear what goes on their bedroom is up to them. That is such a simple and naieve attitude but having been with them for years it certainly is not my attitude.

  57. Except, here in Texas, Mark Davis who is kind of like the DFW Rush Limbaugh routinely calls the "truthers" nut jobs and a political candidate who did not harshly repudiate them fast enough just had her campaign derail.

    If the Daily Kos was correct in their polling, that candidate should have shot to the head of the governor's race instead of having her campaign fall apart.

    Are they trying to say Republicans believe these things, but won't vote for anyone else who does because they believe that anyone else believing these things is a nut job?

    Or maybe that Texas really isn't conservative or Republican?

  58. On a similar slant, what about those on the left who are part of the truther movement, that 911 was an inside job committed by Bush in order to take over the country and impose a dictatorship?

    How many felt Bush should have been impeached?

    Lots of emotional thinking going on, but this sort of thing is just baiting people.


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